From tractors to railcars in one day? Catnip to a cat! I’ll write about anything weird. Nevadahalftrack submitted this handsome American Locomotive Company (ALCO) steam locomotive built in 1913. (Anyone know what else ALCO made, starting in 1906? And what notoriety it collected on the “track”?) For sale here on Ozark Mountain Railcar (for all your railcar needs), #113 is currently berthed somewhere in Florida and is on sale at $135,000, after a price reduction. Of course, shipping is a consideration. You’ll need another $25k to $75k minimum to bring this beast to your doorstep, and then you better have a set of tracks for it. Shipping is a two-step process for a steam locomotive: the body in one load, then its tender (fuel car) and drivers (primary wheels) in another. This locomotive does not currently run, so you’ll need to rustle up about twenty of your best friends, at least ten years of your life, and lots of skills and parts to put her in motion once again.
Locomotives are classified using the Whyte notation, describing how many and where the wheels are. This ALCO is a 4-6-2, meaning she has four front wheels, six drive wheels, and two trailers. This photo shows the drive wheels on one side. Called the “Pacific” type, the 4-6-2 developed from a 4-6-0 run by Lehigh Valley Railroad and altered in 1887 with an elongated frame to carry a larger firebox. Two trailing wheels on the longer frame helped relieve stress on the drive axles, and the 4-6-2 was born. This design increased the speed and range of locomotives and became popular around the world.
Power is served up via an oil-burning steam boiler. Out of the factory, #113 arrived as a saturated steamer. Technically, saturated (dry) steam is created in a pressurized boiler and has no water droplets. Problem is, as the temperature changes in these primitive boilers, water droplets can form, causing havoc in the engine. Vents called cylinder cocks release the unwanted water vapor; that’s why you see so much steam at the moment a locomotive starts up. This locomotive was fitted with a superheater that re-heats the steam and prevents condensation, which should make it more robust for its next owner! Inside the boiler are the flues – all this probably needs to be rebuilt too.
Here she is, showing off her face. Number 113 was delivered to the Florida East Coast Railroad to haul passengers and freight. She was sold in 1933 to the United States Sugar Corporation and used to haul sugar cane from field to mill, still in Florida. In 1969, #113 was donated to a museum in Fort Lauderdale, where for a time she was a weekend excursion train. We don’t know what caused her to be sidelined in the first place, or for how long she’s sat. Fortunately, a few private individuals as well as museums do collect and restore rolling stock; perhaps this beautiful steam locomotive will find a home where she can roam once again.
My recollection is that Jay Leno has steam cars and a steam *engine,* but not a steam *locomotive*………………. jes’ sayin’……………
Lots of HP here 😃
I think BF doesn’t like posting links, but type in “Santa Fe 3751 freeway” on YouTube and watch a huge locomotive run with freeway traffic in Los Angeles. I wonder how much it would take to fix this train up and run it across the country?
Very cool, thank you !
Does that have more modern locomotives pushing it?
Probably not possible.
This unit was probably relegated to stationary display after the boiler failed inspection – or possibly, a frame failure from fatigue. Very often, the failure is not complete; in modern times, x-ray inspections were done on legacy steam locomotives to prevent catastrophe.
It looks like a rebuild had started; but in the last decade, new standards on boiler integrity and inspection have been put in place. It’s subject many of the last generation operating steam locomotives to complete rebuild, and ended the hope of restoring many more.
I cannot imagine who would be buying this, given that it’s a static display. There are plenty left around; the cost to move is incredible. About the only thing I can see it useful for, is as a pattern for a new custom construction.
And this era, and the Pacific type, are not particularly noteworthy. Not in the way some Berkshires were (Nickel Plate 744, one of the last big steam orders, the last Lima Locomotive Works steam order, and the last Super-Power design).
This one is basically unknown (that I know of) of its type. ALCO was a major maker but this is, essentially, industrial – nondescript.
I hope I’m wrong here. History is worth saving.
How much to make an Alco 4-6-2 Superheater loco certified to run the rails?
When I had a temporary loss of sanity and looked at buying a “little” narrow-gauge 0-4-0 steam switcher cheap, with the ultimate goal of running it on a short track at my farm, I was told that for a loco of this Alco’s size, a good rule of costs is:
No boiler certification for up to 10 years? Figure $100,000 to start. Add $10,000 for each additional year it’s sat unused. And those were rates from 2001.
US Sugar purchased another Pacific that they had formerly owned and restored it. The locomotive occasionally operates on their railroad.
LS swap.
Beat me to it! How about ” this would be great as an EV conversion.”
BarnFinds, you never know what we’re going to see. Settle in, folks, Howard Haters, get lost now. I’ve always had an infatuation with railroads, from the humble “Lionel” beginnings, with the “liquid smoke” we inhaled( who knows what that was) to actually riding on one many years ago in Wisconsin, near Baraboo. Most I remember, was the soot covered everything. I had all but forgotten about them, passed the Green Bay Museum a hundred times,,,just no time, I was trucking. It wasn’t until I moved to Colorado that a rekindled interest began. In central Co. we had the Denver& Rio Grande, which I believe was part of Sante Fe. The D&RG had “narrow gauge” tracks, mostly because of limited space in the hills. In the late 1800s, mining was huge, silver mostly, and mining towns sprung up throughout the region. The ore was loaded on gondola cars, and transported to my city, where it was transferred to wider rail cars, bound for Pueblo smelter. Initially BY HAND, a “tipple” device was made to lift and tip the entire rail car. An engineering feat in itself.
Naturally, I became RE-fascinated with these behemoths. 1st, I rode on a small train ride in Leadville, an electric diesel pulled about 6 cars into the hills on an old mining route.A steam locomotive awaits restoration. The engineer was a really cool guy, clearly loved what he did, and I said, if your name is Charley Pratt, I’m gonna plotz! He was a portly man, dirty overalls and knew the reference well. ( Petticoat Junction).
2nd, I knew they used a lot of water, but how much freaked me out. I always thought the tender was full of coal. Not so, as “Charley” pointed out. Typically, steam engines used an astonishing, 300-500 gallons of water PER MILE! The tender is really a big tank that can hold 10,000 gallons or more, adding a ton of weight by itself. On hilly routes, of no more than 4% grade( rise 4 feet for every 100 feet traveled) stopping for water was a regular thing. Every 15 minutes, in some cases. The Rocky Mountain rails boasted the steepest “non-cog” railway in the world. The Alpine tunnel, and the Palisades Wall, were considered engineering marvels, and the 1st rail over the Continental Divide. Naturally, winter posed the biggest challenges. They had a steam powered rotary snowblower, that had to be pushed by 3, 4, sometimes 5 steam engines. It was a slow process, sometimes 1 mile/hour, only to have it snowed back on the return trip. My city boasted 2 roundhouses, a complete maintenance facility, and a beautiful Art Deco station/motel, that they destroyed at night without anyone knowing. The rail was big business. The silver boom went bust in the teens, and by the 20s, most of the towns dried up, and the rails were all pulled,( now hiking/atv trails) an end of an era. The last passenger train was 1964, the facilities were all dismantled, and the very last freight train was 1997.
Special thanks again to Michelle, you are one classy chic,,oops, I mean, gal, and thank you ever so much for this. The picture above was the “cockpit” of the diesel electric. “Charley”( never did get his real name) let me sit in the “drivers seat”. I expected no less than the Millenium Falcon, but was surprised it was actually very simple. Air brake valves, like a truck, a F-N-R lever, couple gauges and of course, the horn button. I didn’t get to “drive” the train, but he said, they may be taking volunteers for the locomotive restoration. I’m still fascinated how these lumbering behemoths pulled anything at all.
Thank you Howard for an interesting and fun write-up.
I sometimes stop and consider large, impressive mechanical equipment, or engineering accomplishments, from a century (or more) ago. When I do so I realize the engineers did all their work with…. slide rules and columnar paper.
From where you were, in Wisconsin, you must remember the Soo Line.
Sure do. I think it serviced Minnesota-Wis. Most all those routes are ATV/hiking trails now. Tell you what, they make dandy snowmobile trails too.
Howard, I am guessing you must have done this one at least once. Narrow gauge, runs between New Mexico and Colorado. Very cool.
https://cumbrestoltec.com/
I have not. There’s a short line in Silverton that I believe uses a steam engine.
I rode the Durango-Silverton one a few years ago. Good memories! It’s about an eight hour trip, with an hour lunch/shopping break in Silverton. We were told that the fireman shovels something like eight tons of coal for each trip. My comment was “Don’t pick a fight with that guy!”.
300-500 gallons PER MILE? I didn’t realize they were so thirsty. That would mean a small railroad town or a water tank connected to some sort of self filling water system every 8 to 15 miles or every few miles in hilly territory. Faster than a wagon train or ship to move cargo but still a slow journey on the iron horse. By comparison any idea the average amount of coal or wood was burned to get the firebox nice and hot to heat the water?
Yes, water use was high because the early versions didn’t have condensing systems, and even then the technology had not solved the high water use. Some railroads operating in dryer climes were known to park surplus tanker cars on sidings to provide a source of water.
I was astonished too. In the mountains, most of the water tanks were spring fed, and took anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. Some were hand pumped by the crew. I read, water stops consumed most of the trip time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_stop
Near Baraboo, do you mean, North Freedom? We took our kids on that steam train years ago, it was wonderful. Working steam engines that run for the tourists are a dying breed, modern kids don’t seem to understand how important these were up until about 1960. Nothing like the sight and sound of one. Great memories indeed.
That’s the one. I don’t think they use the steam locomotive anymore, however.
Thought you’d enjoy this, Howard-Big Boy 4014 to the rescue in Blair, NE circa 2023 I think!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vLWBP-ehOo
Very very cool. Keep the old trains coming…
The only Pacific engine I own is an American Flyer 313 with the “large” motor. I don’t think I could make room in the garage for this one otherwise I’d consider it. Call the IL railway museum in Union .They might be interested as they have volunteers that restore and run em.Neat piece of U.S. history.glwts.
I have American flyer 310 312 and 290 all Pacific locomotives.
I’ve been an American Flyer collector/ operator for over fifty-five years.
Real trains run on 2 rails Like Gilbert American Flyer.My dad was a garbage man in the streets and sanitation department in Chicago. In the late 60’s .kids wanted hotwheels and Johnny Lightenings in this era and trains went to the trash.He would bring home box loads of trains people were throwing away and give them to me for xmas gifts. I could run a good layout on a ping pong table with a 300watt 30b and a few 75watt 8b’s for accecsories.I had all of the Gilbert accesories static and railcars even the tnt car. The mailbag car was my favorite as my daughter at 2 years old a few decades ago would try and catch it.I had the 314aw Pacific with the whistleing tender and controller too.Fun fact Lionel sued Gilbert and they had to stop production of the 314 not long after introduction.
What’s the date code on the wheels, dry rot can be a problem…
Not that, so much – those are long-life “tires”
(yes, the running surface on railroad wheels is a separate forging, and is called a “tire” – pressed on, hot)
…but the wheels are out of balance.
Notice those odd shapes on the drivers on one side? Those are counterweights, for the “monkey-motion” – the side rods and connecting rods. Which appear to be removed. So those wheels will be grossly out of balance when rolling at any sort of speed.
Given that bearings would have to be inspected and probably replaced…it would literally be cheaper to just load it onto a flat car and pull it where it’s going.
And given the overall weight and height…it would have to be done in three pieces, as noted.
So, the estimated cost of movement, stands.
Washington state and Colorado have alot of old trains laying around. There are also alot of antique boxcars in people’s back yards in Colorado used for storage.
I will ask the wife if I can have all her garage spaces, the driveway, and half of the back yard for this. When she says NO, the sports car I want won’t seem so bad in comparison.
Thanks Michelle, what a neat presentation. I love trains, but this is a pretty expensive “yard art” with the original cost, then getting it moved, etc. Are the “cars” an additional opportunity, because those can be made into neat “cottages” or sleeping quarters for guests.
ALCO’s former head man was Walter P. Chrysler
It belongs in a museum.
Well if its on connecting tracks I wonder if you could just get permission from the rail companies to just bring it to your city driving it would make for a fun rail trip. Don’t be stupid like sound transit in Washington where they paid $13 million dollars to Burlington Northern to use the rails from Everett to Seattle all in the name of ” light rail” but that’s a discussion for a different day.
Probably not.
After several accidents involving steam, Norfolk Southern and other rail companies have severely limited legacy steam operations. The Union Pacific still has its own steam program, but I believe the BNSF makes it very difficult to even move steam through their right-of-way.
Then there is the required inspection of bearings, brake equipment…testing, perhaps rebuilding of valves and cylinders…yes, just to splice it dead into a train.
It is not an easy thing. And, as a 25-year railroad man, I know a bit about this.
Oo, ooo, Call on me!
True story…My grandfather was the Brake Man on a racing car sponsored by ALCO back in the 19teens. He sat in the passenger seat and kept engine oil pressure up by pumping on a lever-operated oil pump, when he wasn’t hauling back on a long hand brake handle to apply the brakes! Just imagine the stress of THAT job!!
I’d love to see a photo of the ALCO race car!!
…Did I get the answer?
You are absolutely CORRECT! And yes, an ALCO car won the Vanderbilt Cup one year and was in the first Indy race! Called the Black Beast.
https://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/car_collection/car/C85?/black_beast#:~:text=Nicknamed%20%E2%80%9Cthe%20Black%20Beast%2C%E2%80%9D,500%2Dmile%20race%20in%201911.
Good job Brad!
Oh Michelle! Thank you for sharing that link to some ALCO race cars. It’s the most information we’ve ever found. (We’ve never even seen pictures of an ALCO.)
Viva VAPOR!
You’d have the only one at the local cruise-in.
Will they deliver?
“Ran when parked”?
No photos of the underside? ‘ Think I’ll pass on this one…
Ran when tied down.
Let’s get the terminology correct. Railroads evolved from canal-boating; so when equipment is secured at the end of shift or work-session, it’s “tied down.”
Don’t worry about the underside. If you’re operating or preparing this one, you’ll see it a LOT. Dumping cinders; greasing axle journals…dragging the carcasses of animals you hit, out from under…
Nobody loves diesel locomotives more than a long-time steam man.
(Not that I ever worked with steam; but when I was new, we had some steam veterans still around…)
And no cold-start video…
I think I will stick with the Lionel Santa Fe lol. Which I also wrote a poem about. Owning that locomotive would be awesome if you could actually use it.
Call around to the scenic railroads that still run steam, especially in Colorado. Being converted to burn oil is good because it reduces the chances of starting trackside fires.
The photo isn’t really clear, but is this really a 2-6-0 and not a 4-6-2?
Click on the picture to make it larger. In a straight line from the white sign on the side of the cab down to the rail you can see just a small bit of the white side of the single wheel.
My first and only train set was American Flyer. My first locomotive was a 4-6-2. Married a pretty lady who’s entire family worked in railroading including her. Said she’d love to have it but told her I wouldn’t go for selling the house and living in a barn that housed it. Neat piece of old history. By the way, I had the best of both worlds back then as we lived 2 miles away from the American Flyer factory in New Haven, Conn.
Do you happen to have any photographs of the old factory from years ago?
Used to. Lost all our life history photos when we got submerged by hurricane Irma in ’17. Salt water turned them into blank pieces of paper. By the way, as a little kid we used to go visit my uncle in Batesville, Indiana. Had a small rail station next to a big park. There was a steam passenger train that came through at 92 mph and threw dust all over the town.
Other train pictures we lost included the two of us standing by a Big Boy on display in Wyoming. That picture really showed how large the steam engines were.
Can’t believe that no one has said that it corners as if on rails.
Well, we didn’t want to derail the thread.
Was it Alco or Elco that built PT boats for the US navy in WW2 ?
Smirking like Felix the cat
Now this would annoy my HOA (hostile owners association) parked in my back yard.. fenced I of course. Baaaaaahaaaahaa
ALCO also made a race car in that Won the Vanderbilt Cup Races in both 1909 and 1910 . The car is still here on Long Island, where the races were held (on the Vanderbilt Motor Parkway: the first paved road in america)The car is known as the “BLACK BEAST”… and quite a BEAST it is! The owner , Howard Cropnick, campaigns the car at local car shows… and even offers his fellow car nuts an occasional ride. Quite a thrill!l
(interesting site) http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com
Howard aso owns a Tucker… Try and top THAT for having a diverse collection!
Steam trains are a part of world history that will slowly fade by the wayside save for a few diehards that will pass on their knowledge as best they can for as long as possible, bless ‘em all.
With that segue, Michelle, all the BF readers and writers bring a unique flair to a very cool automotive forum.. but your columns are a dash of Denise McCluggage, a touch of Jean Lindamood spice then whisked with your own personal recipe for writing with an eclectic audience-eclectic in an interesting way, done in a way we all understand it from our perspective as well; the response elicited from the readers add to it that much more.
Nevada my friend,
After reading that comment, I dare say you could probably do well writing here on BF. I suspect there are only a few dozen readers here who understand your comments about 2 of the best female automotive writers around. I still miss reading their works.
Hi Bill, thanks for your contributions as always, and all who commented. What’s nice about these threads, hooligans have nothing to add. I’m sure you are familiar with the British “Napier-Deltic” motor. An 18 cylinder( or more), supercharged, opposed, 2 stroke. I read, it takes almost 20 minutes to prime the fuel system. Some are over 3,000 hp. To gaze at its operation alone, will make you go mad,,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Deltic
When I first discovered the Napier Deltic, I thought it might be a joke. Nobody would be crazy enough to create such a complicated 2-stroke locomotive engine! Yet they did, and it actually ran! The only piston engine I know with 3 crankshafts!
About 1990, in a visit to the National Railway museum in York, England I finally saw one of these incredible engines, and they also have a cut-away version so one can see how it works. Anyone who has a serious interest in Trains should plan a visit to England, where there is a huge amount of vintage railway in preservation. And York is an absolute MUST for a day-long visit.
When checking out the Wiki page on the Deltic, note the moving description of the firing order on the Deltic. It’s insane!
I too miss them, though I’ve heard Jean does something called “Autoblog”though I’ve not yet checked it out. As I recall she and Denise were fast friends with McCluggage, two very different people in many ways sharing a passion for cars and especially racing. Me thinks they and our Michelle Rand would’ve been famous friends!
Insofar as twitching the quill to paper, so to speak, I am flattered but the BF staff is far more experienced with their art than I ever could be IMO; their working knowledge of all things transportation is always an education for me and often opens a mechanical realm I’d never even thought to think.
Now, had I an instant resource to the knowledge that you, Howard A,, Wayne, Bob_in_TN, the BF editorial staff and so many other of the readers here I’d be set-but it wouldn’t be nearly as much fun as reading the comments that come slidin’ in sideways after a piece is written!
Definitely won’t fit in my garage….
Nice things about most garages is they can be enlarged!
I am sitting in a campground in Durango, Colorado, where the Durango and Silverton steam train runs right through the middle of the campground twice a day! It takes passengers from Durango to Silverton, and back each day. We get the steam whistle each time it comes through. In Durango they have a restored station, and tours through the steam locomotive restoration shop, the can have 8 locomotives inside at a time. There is an operating roundtable outside of the shop. I’m not sure how many operating and working engines they have, but there are many. The trip is 42 miles one way, and is an all day affair. Lots of fun!! The Cumbres and Train is not too far from here, and is also an excellent experience!! Gotta go, here comes the train!!
It’s the reason, at least in the wide open states, why towns are (or were) at most 10-15 miles apart. They needed watering stations and where there were trains and water, there was an opportunity for money to be made so towns sprung up along the rail lines. In fact, many towns picked up and moved when the RR came through the area, just to be next to it.
At the height of steam, the New York Central ran from NYC to Chicago averaging 109MPH + across NY State using their Niagra 4-8-4 engines. The water tank had a scoop on the bottom and special sections of track were open in the middle and filled with water. So the train could fill the water tank while travelling at over 60 MPH.
And as others have commented, it’s one thing to rebuild this locomotive, which would cost a minimum of a couple hundred thousand with all volunteer labor. But on top of that, a boiler certification has to be over $125 K now, probably more.
Hi John, not to upstage you, but ALCO also made the class F7 high speed locomotive for the Milwaukee Road Hiawatha line. It had 8 foot drive wheels, and could easily hit 120 mph, dubbed, the fastest steam engine built. It serviced Chicago/ Milwaukee/Minneapolis, and was called the “Twin Cities 400”, meaning, it would go from Chicago to Minneapolis in 400 minutes, WITH STOPS!. You can’t do that by car today. It regularly went 100 mph in open areas, and all the other trains pulled off on sidings when this thing come a rumblin’ through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cph7KwNMon8
Howard, great complementary info!
John,
Years ago I saw a story about the track pans [“water trough” in the UK] between the rails, and it mentioned the loco had to be traveling at a specific speed; too slow and the tanks didn’t fully fill, and if too fast the process sprayed water everywhere as the loco went past.
The story also said in the US during bird & geese migration periods, guys had to be stationed along the tracks to scare away fowl, or the birds would get sucked up and clog the intake pipe!
These were used in many places in England & Scotland, and even early Diesel locomotives used the water trough! That’s right, even Diesel locos had to get water, because the passenger train cars thru the 1970s all still used steam heat! This meant that small steam boilers in the locos would need their water tanks topped up on long runs.
As I recall, the early troughs and pans were flat, and the scoops fixed in place, as raising & lowering the scoop was too slow. What the railroads did was lower the rails about 4 to 6 inches where the pans were located, while keeping the ties and pans at a fixed level point. Many of the troughs in the UK were located in tunnels, so the excess water spray would drain back into the troughs again.
The perfect gift for the guy who has everything.
Can anyone confirm if this locomotive was built at the Schenectady NY ALCO plant?